Was Mirza Subh i Azal the real successor of Bab?-A Debate

雙魚Feb 2, 2010 12:34 AM

Fancy may kill or cure. …………………………………………….
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AnonymousOct 31, 2010 07:46 PM
He was NOT the real successor of the “Bab”.
He was the half brother of Baha’ullah.
Her mother pushed her son and the other friends to try to gain power… His followers poisoned Baha’ullah and trying everything to destroy Baha’ullah family and followers….
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Lover of BabDec 14, 2010 11:40 AM
@ Anonymous
You are totally biased. What are the proofs of all that you said? You are just saying what has been taught to you in your Ruhi Classes. You have been brainwashed. I feel sorry for you.
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AnonymousJan 19, 2011 10:14 PM
how is it biased, it is the truth it has not been stated anywhere that mirza yahya was the successor of the bab. Look at all the things that he did to Bahaullah, do you think that it was good? Of course not, Mirza yahya was the arch covenant breaker. Also it doesn’t just say that in the ruhi books it says it in most of the holy writings, so i dont know what your talking about.
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Badi19 Feb 7, 2011 01:39 AM
Dear Anonymous,
You said Subh-i-Azal was not a good man. The same is said about Baha’u’llah, that he was not a good man.
Do you know that the Thugs of Baha’u’llah murdered so many followers of Subh-i-Azal?
Have you ever visited http://www.bayanic.com/
You will get all the information about Subh-i-Azal and how Baha’u’llah committed crimes against Azal and his followers.
May God guide you towards the right path.
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AnonymousFeb 23, 2011 03:50 AM
Don’t tell me about the right path mirza yahya was a covenant breaker as well as his so called followed. Bahaullah did not have thugs. They are called his followers who are known as today as the Baha’is. I do not mean to be rude but please review the writings of bahaullah and the many Baha’i stories, I’m sure you are a knowledgeable person. Bahaullah was a manifestation of god and endured many sufferings including sufferings from his own half brother mirza yahya. He endured those sufferings for humanity. He was a manifestation of and we should all recognize this, please think this over.
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NaserMar 4, 2011 08:29 AM
You haifan baha’is are completely ruhi’i’zed. Open your eyes! don’t just follow all what is being taught to you in those Ruhis. The haifan UHJ is taking the benefit of the poor people of your likes. You are completely blind of the Babi history.
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AnonymousMar 6, 2011 10:20 PM
oh shut up stop making your own stupid sects its people like you that cause all these problems it plain and simple. A prophet is sent down us to teach us Gods message either take it or leave it but DO NOT CHANGE IT! Its not that hard to understand. The ruhi books are another way of teaching. STOP making your own stupid terms like ‘ruhized’. Grow up! Stop causing problems.
What is in the ruhi books is in line with the teachings of the faith. It is not seperate so stop making seperate. The governing body of the Bahai faith is The Universal House of Justice you know that I know that everyone who is a bahai knows that. All bahai’s are bahai’s there are no sects. STOP causing problems. If religion was the cause of dissension it would be better for it not to exist at all. This is quoted. CREATE UNITY NOT PROBLEMS.
Ya Bahaul Abha.
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AnonymousMar 6, 2011 10:25 PM
Oi nasser whats with the ‘haifan UHJ’ what are there other Universal Houses of Justice. Think before you say something. I implore you to read the BAHAI writings which i’m sure are available. Independent investigation of the truth is one of the important things of the bahai faith. Do not listen to others, investigate it for yourself, if the bahai faith is not to your liking, at least do not cause problems!
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Naser EmtesaliMar 9, 2011 09:32 AM
“whats with the ‘haifan UHJ’ what are there other Universal Houses of Justice”
Dear Anonymous,
There is one another UHJ that I am aware of and I am sure you are also aware of it.
See this : www.uhj.net
bye
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AnonymousMar 13, 2011 04:33 AM
No I’m not aware of it and I shouldn’t have to cause there is no such thing as another universal house of justice there is only one. Why to you believe all these different misconceptions and ideas. I don’t understand why you can’t just be a Baha’i. Don’t believe that stuff. I honestly believe you can change your mind. It really upsets me that people make problems and have misconceptions and just can’t create unity. Not that I’m trying to say that I’m superior at all. Do you really think that 7 million Baha’is around the world are believing in something false and that people like you are understanding the truth of the faith. I didn’t want to have to say that but how can I influence people such as your self. You guys are just making things complicated. Mirza yahya was a covenant breaker he did bad things throughout bahaullahs life, yet bahaullah endured them, disentangle that sound updating to you. Bahaullah was trying to teach everyone about the faith the message from god and that he was a manifestation, mirza yahya caused problems to bahaullah, he was in no wise a good man, how can a man such as mirza yahya be good, he did no good he showed no good and he was not faithful to bahaullah or the faith and yet you still believe in him. I don’t understand that after all that you still choose to follow that path. Mirza yahya had the opportunity to become a follower yet he chose to throw it away, how can someone such as himself who was close to bahaullah throw an opportunity like that away. He was jealous and ignorant, there always is a ignorant person, I can’t understand why he would want to hurt bahaullah or the faith, if he didnt like bahaullah or the faith he could of at least not involved himself in it. Instead of causing all these problems for everyone, what god has set and sent down will be achieved I can guarantee you that, if it is gods will it will happen eventually the whole world will be unified and will be Baha’is, steadfast bahais that a steadfast in the covenant and hopefully do not follow in the footsteps of mirza yahya. I hope you read this extremely long message with great thought and given it a hard thinking, sleep on it, do what ever you want with it, I can only hope that you will become a Baha’i that is firm in the covenant and steadfast with the laws of bahaullah and his teachings
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NaserMar 14, 2011 03:47 AM
I thank you for your humble comments.
I really have sympathy for Haifan Baha’is like you who are completely brainwashed. When the Haifan Bahai Administration (HBA) is not allowing to read you the authentic Babi material. How can you pass a judgment by reading only those censored Haifan Books. Please do justice to yourself. If you really believe in IIOT (Independent…..truth) then do visit http://bayanic.com/, do read the crimes committed by Baha’u’llah and his goons in the early days.

Because the HBA says you so about Subh’i’Azal and because it have so many chapters dedicated to him in your Ruhi Course, you have become blind. Open your eyes.

Baha’i faith was not, is not and will never be united. There are two UHJs one Based in ISRAEL and the other in US. Where is your unity?

There are so many guardians and they have so many followers and all are saying that your Haifan UHJ is bogus without a guardian. Isn’t that mentioned in your writings.

7 Million baha’is is a Joke. Were are these 7 millions? Which country. Scattered here a there a few people does not make 7 million.

you need to see this :
http://bahaicensusindia.blogspot.com/
Awake from your sleep. They will snatch all your money in the name of funds and huququllah. Beware.
Thank you.
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AnonymousMar 18, 2011 07:16 PM
Are you crazy or something THERE ARE 7 MILLION BAHAIS IN THE WORLD!!!! You want me to name the countries ok here we GO!!! AMERICA. AUSTRLIA, CHINA, CANADA, RUSSIA, THAILAND, IRAN, ISRAEL, KOREA, BRAZIL, PORTUGAL, GHANA, ENGLAND, FRANCE, ITALY, GERMANY, SWITZERLAND, NEWZEALAND, ETC…
READ YOUR FACTS BEFORE YOU SAY SOMETHING.
THERE ARE NOT TWO UHJS YOU SOUND LIKE A SMART PERSON, TOO BLODDY BAD YOUR GETTING THE WRONG INFORMATION. THERE ARE MORE BAHAIS THAN THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE YOU. WANNA KNOW WHY BECAUSE BAHAULLAHS FAITH WILL NOT STOP GROWING BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE DERRANGED ARE STOPPING IT. IT IS GODS WILL AND IT WILL BE ACHIEVED, HE WILL BE VICTORIOUS OVER ALL, IT IS GODS WILL AND IT WILL BE ACHIEVED. Where the hell did you get many guardians from there is and was only one SHOGHI EFFENDI GRANDSON OF ABDULBAHA AND GREATGRANDSON OF BAHAULLAH, NOT YOUR STUPID COVENANT BREAKERS WHO SAY THAT THEY ARE THE NEXT GUARDIAN. YOU TURN SOMETHING THAT IS WONDERFUL INTO SOMETHING THAT HAS NO MEANING WHATS SO OVER. NO YOU NEED TO OPEN YOUR EYES AND CLOSE THAT DAMNN MOUTH OF YOUR AND USE YOUR EARS TO LISTEN TO SOMETHING USEFUL LIKE WHAT IM SAYING.
AND GET OVER THE RUHI BOOKS YOU TALK TOO MUCH ABOUT IT GET OVER IT!!!! mirza yahya screwed everything up he DIDNT WRITE ANY TABLETS HE DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO CAUSE UNITY AND HE WAS NOT THE SUCCESSOR OF THE BAHAI FAITH. AFTER YOU THINK OF REPLYING ABOUT WHAT I HAVE JUST SAID DONT EVEN THINK OF WRITING “YES BUT HE DID DO SOME GOOD THINGS” YEH WELL GUESS WHAT SOME IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND WILL NEVER BE AND I CANT EVEN IMAGINE WHAT GOOD HE WOULD OF DONE AT ALL.
THE INFORMATION YOU ARE GETTING IS A LOAD OF LIES AND FALSE.
YOU NEED TO OPEN YOUR EYES BEFORE ITS TOO LATE, TOO LATE TO RECREATE YOUR FATE!!!!!
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NaserMar 20, 2011 12:07 AM
“Are you crazy or something”
I may be crazy in the blinded eyes of Haifan cultist like you.
The actual crazies are the Brainwashed people like you, who are believing in the body of those nine elected (or selected?) members to be infallible. How can a sane person believe to me a body of nine normal individuals to be manifestation of God for this age?

Read this
“We don’t want to be like those people who want to see God with their own eyes, or hear His melody with their own ears, because we have been given the gift of being able to see through the eyes of the House of Justice and listen through the ears of the House of Justice.” – Bahai Counselor Rebeque Murphy

more can be found here
http://bahaicultfaq.blogspot.com/

You are Crazy and Blind and Deaf.

Now regarding 7 Million Baha’is?
How many Baha’is are there in those countries? Don’t blindly believe in what is being said to you by those Pseudo Gods. They say you 7 million and u believe without any proof? You are really too submissive. Ask them proof. You haven’t visited this blog i think, do visit please :
http://bahaicensusindia.blogspot.com/

There are 2 UHJs and this is a fact. You cannot deny. Boothe these UHJs are fighting with each other. Isn;t this true? Why you deny?
Tell me if you believe in this UHJ?
http://www.uhj.net

Baha’u’llah’s faith has started rotting. It has become stagnant many are leaving the faith. Why there is so much opposition to the Haifan UHJ? Are these all people the agents of Iranian Intelligence as told to you by your RUHI TUTOR.
They are controlling your mind. Think independently. read this article. EXIT BY TROOPS

http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/troopsexit.html

“LISTEN TO SOMETHING USEFUL LIKE WHAT IM SAYING”

What is useful in your saying. Junk. Everything without proofs. Just damn claims.

“mirza yahya screwed everything up he DIDNT WRITE ANY TABLETS HE DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO CAUSE UNITY AND HE WAS NOT THE SUCCESSOR OF THE BAHAI FAITH.”

Read this from the true authentic Babi Sources (Uncensored)
http://www.bayanic.com/

Baha’u’llah was a fraud and so the cult established by him.

See this for more understanding.
http://bahaicultfaq.blogspot.com/

Happy Persian New Year to you. Happy Navrooz.
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AnonymousMar 20, 2011 01:12 AM
It’s important to realize that there are several different Bahai denominations. The Wilmette-Haifan Baha’is have in fact been expressing plenty of “hatred” toward other Bahais for many decades, suing and harassing them in the attempt to deprive them of their Constitutional rights of religious freedom and conscience:

Opinion of US 7th Circuit Court of Appeals, Case No. 08-2306 – November 23, 2010
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/US_7th_Circuit_Court_of_Appeals_11-23-2010.html

Baha’i Faith & 7th Circuit Court of Appeals
http://bahaifaith7thcircuitcourtofappeals.blogspot.com
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AnonymousMar 21, 2011 10:32 PM
First of all its Happy Naw ruz second of all there are 7 million bahais and i have been to different countries and seen it. Also i did not say the house of justice is a manifestation of god. Are actually a dum ass you must be retarted or something, its like you dont retain any imformation i tell you, if you want to stay this way that way, but let me tell this is the last time i am going to comment, i tried my best you. BUT YOU JUST DONT LISTEN, YOU CAN STICK YOUR BLODDY BAYANIC.COM CRAP AND SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS FOR ALL I CARE. IT IS A FALSE WEBSITE, IT IS PROBABLY THE ONLY WEBSITE THAT YOU PEOPLE HAVE AND WILL EVER HAVE BECAUSE YOU CANNOT THINK OF ANY OTHER CRAP TO PUT INTO IT, YOU ARE BLOODY CONTRADICTING YOURSELF AND ARE RUINING THE LIVES OF OTHERS, SO NEXT TIME YOU WANT TO REFER THAT CRAP BAYANIC.COM WEBSITE THINK, DO I WANT TO TELL SOMEONE SOMETHING FALSE, SHOULD I WASTE MY LIFE IN CONTRADICTION, MISINTERPRETATION AND FALSE TALK. THE CHOICE IS YOURS, YOU MAKE IT. BUT DONT MAKE YOUR CRAP UP. THERE IS ONE TRUE SUCCESSOR THAT IS BAHAULLAH, HIS NEXT SUCCESSOR ABDULBAHA, HIS SUCCESSOR SHOGHI EFFENDI AND NOW THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE LOCATED IN HAIFA, WHO ARE THE ONLY HOUSE OF JUSTICE AND THERE WILL ONLY BE ONE. GOODBYE AND GOOD NIGHT FOREVER.
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Wahid AzalMar 25, 2011 06:07 AM
“Her mother pushed her son and the other friends to try to gain power…

This is quite a humorous statement considering that the mother of Subh-i-Azal died while Subh-i-Azal was a baby and it was the mother of Mirza Husayn ‘Ali Nuri (aka Baha’u ‘llah) who became Subh-i-Azal’s primary care giver. She also died before the events under the question.

It does not cease boggle the mind as to how ignorant Haifan Bahais are of the overall features of their own history.
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AnonymousJul 12, 2011 04:34 PM
Hello

The issue being discussed is; who was the One that the Báb predicted that would be made Manifest: The Azal’s believe it was Mirza Yahya Subh i Azal; The Baha’is Believe it was Bahá’u’lláh.

Lover of Bab Asked: “What are the proofs of all that you said?”

On investigating The Baha’i Faith, as with other religions I was told bad things about the Faith, however, I investigated these rumors for my self; and after clearing away the dirt, I saw such a luster of spirituality, I wanted to be part of this myself. My point is, if one wants to know the truth, one must investigate the reality themselves. The proof I needed was Bahá’u’lláh’s teachings has the ability to change peoples lives by the love of God and a love for their fellow man with honesty and truthfulness.

What follows is a few things worthy of consideration.

In a “Tablet Addressed To ‘Him Who Will Be Made Manifest” … The Báb says only “Him Who Will Be Made Manifest” can establish His Faith: “that no one can attain anything save by Thy power and that He Whom Thou hast raised up is but Thy servant and Thy Testimony.”
Only Bahá’u’lláh was able to establish His Faith and made It a world Faith.

And further, in this same Tablet, The Báb said: “I, indeed, beg to address Him Whom God shall make manifest …” “do Thou grant a respite of nineteen years as a token of Thy favour so that those who have embraced this Cause may be graciously rewarded by Thee.”
The Báb declared His Faith in 1844; Bahá’u’lláh declared His Faith in 1863, Exactly 19 years after the Báb declared His Faith.

Baha’u’llah’s younger half-brother Mirza Yahya Subh-i-Azal … rejected Baha’u’llah’s claim to be “He Whom God Will Manifest,” … As for those who followed Subh-i-Azal; Professor Browne himself estimated their number to be no more than three or four in every hundred Babis, all the remainder having recognized in Bahá’u’lláh the signs of the Bab’s “Promised One.”(15)

“It is impossible that any responsible examination of the Babi era could be undertaken without making extensive use of THE DAWN- BREAKERS: NABIL’S NARRATIVE, the detailed history of that period written by the one person who was both a firsthand observer and a recognized historical writer.(19)
“For those events which he did not personally witness, Nabil provides in exhaustive detail, the identity of the observers from whom he received the accounts and very often the circumstances surrounding the transmittal”(20)
In its place, the principal source used for this period (apart from Mr. Azal) is an extraordinary manuscript produced by unknown writers some time between 1852 and 1863, under the title NUQTATU’L KAF.
(21)

Part 2 below
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AnonymousJul 12, 2011 04:36 PM

“The Bab’s recognition of the title of Bahá’u’lláh (Glory of God) was particularly significant since He had used precisely this term in the Bayan to allude to the promised “Him Whom God Will Manifest.” On the eve of His departure for Tabriz where He was executed the Bab reiterated this recognition in a remarkable Tablet which He forwarded to Bahá’u’lláh. Nabil, who was himself a witness of the transmittal, describes the document as: …a scroll of blue paper, of the most delicate texture, on which the Bab, in His own exquisite handwriting, which was a fine shikastih script, had penned, in the form of a pentacle, what numbered about five hundred verses, all consisting of derivations from the words “Baha.” … So fine and intricate was the penmanship that, viewed at a distance, the
writing appeared as a single wash of ink on the paper. We were overcome with admiration as we gazed upon a masterpiece which no calligraphist, we believed, could rival.” (37)
“The scroll was duly delivered to Bahá’u’lláh at Tihran. The most cursory research would have cleared up any question which a modern student of the Baha’i Faith might have on the subject.” 38 As a foot note, the Báb sent a box with His Tablets including the Scroll just mention, and with the Báb’s on pin, to Bahá’u’lláh.

In conclusion: I know that Bahá’u’lláh makes a new creation of those who comes under His Teachings.
I don’t have any experience with the Azal movement, so I have nothen to say.

The Báb said only the one that God Manifested could established His Faith.
I know that Bahá’u’lláh establish His Faith, and It became a world Faith.

The Báb asked “do Thou grant a respite of nineteen years as a token of Thy favour so that those who have embraced this Cause may be graciously rewarded by Thee.” Bahá’u’lláh Made His public declaration in 1863 exactly 19 years after the declaration of the Báb. Did Azal give a declaration 19 years after the Báb’s?

Did the Azal’s , study the detailed history of The ‘Dawn- Breakers’: Nabil’s Narrative? Or were they content with the NUQTATU’L KAF, a manuscript produced by unknown writers?

If Azal was the promise one, Why did The Báb sent a box with His Tablets, and with His own pin, to Bahá’u’lláh?

This is something to think on! Regards.
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AnonymousJul 29, 2011 06:17 AM

Guys, please. Let’s put our differences aside and stop arguing. Honestly, what is the point of argument. It achieves absolutely nothing.
Allah’u’abha
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Wahid AzalJul 29, 2011 07:18 AM

“The Báb said only the one that God Manifested could established His Faith”

Not the Primal Point’s, and beside the Bab explicitly said He whom God shall make Manifest would not appear for between 1511 to 2001 years.

“I know that Bahá’u’lláh establish His Faith, and It became a world Faith. “

So did Reverend Sung Young Moon, Osho, Sai Baba and a whole slew of New Religious Movement cults – some of whom even outnumber you Bahais.

“do Thou grant a respite of nineteen years as a token of Thy favour so that those who have embraced this Cause may be graciously rewarded by Thee.”

He addressed this to HWGSMM when he appears between 1511 and 2001, and not to Mirza Husayn Ali Nuri.

“Did the Azal’s , study the detailed history of The ‘Dawn- Breakers’: Nabil’s Narrative?”

No, because no such history was ever written by Nabil Zarandi. The DAWN BREAKERS is a complete fabrication of Shoghi Effendi. If this text is real, let us see the original.http://www.scribd.com/doc/59724054/Tabatabai-on-Tarikh-i-Nabil

“Or were they content with the NUQTATU’L KAF, a manuscript produced by unknown writers?”

Nuqtat’ul-Kaf was authored by Hajji Mirza Jani Kashani, a companion of the Bab. There are early manuscripts of this work as early as 1853 (a year after the author’s death).

“If Azal was the promise one,”

He wasn’t. Subh-i-Azal never claimed to be anything other than what the Bab had nominated him as: his Mirror (mir’at) and successor (wasi).

” Why did The Báb sent a box with His Tablets, and with His own pin, to Bahá’u’lláh?”

He didn’t. This is a lie and fiction peddled by you Baha’is. All the earliest documentary evidence proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that all of these were sent to Subh-i-Azal, not to Mirza Husayn Ali Nuri.
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Reference: http://bahaism.blogspot.in/2010/02/high-resolution-image-of-subh-i-azal.html



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