Extracted from : http://www.maitreya.org/english/Letters/Bahais/dismayed_bahai.htm
A Letter From a Dismayed Baha’i
Ok, I’ve been bothered by this site, and how ignorant the creators and followers of this thing are. There is no third prophet. What ‘Abdu’l-Bahá meant by the seventh angel will bring order and worldly peace, wasn’t that the seventh angel is a prophet of God, but what he means by the seventh angel, is that the entire world will realize Bahá’u’lláh has come, and the spirit of God will unite in everyone and create world order and peace. The seventh angel is a spirit. Not a person. You have to remember, never take the Bible literally. The bible is always symbolic. From Genesis down to Revelation. The Bible is symbolism, with added truth. You mustn’t forget this. I believe that i have made myself perfectly clear in saying that Bahá’u’lláh is the true prophet for this 1000 years.
He is answered by a former Baha’i
Answer to the Dismayed Baha’i
As a former Bahá’í I can understand the frustration you might have about all the claims you may hear from time to time. However, if you remember, when you became a Bahá’í, you felt a certainty, a feeling of peace, and discovery. This is the same feeling that I had when I had looked at the Mission of Maitreya site and as I heard Maitreya speak on Saturday mornings. Also, I looked at the answers on the site itself given to Bahais which you may have seen. It boils down to ” He doeth whatsoever He willeth.”
In the first lines in your letter you mention ” how ignorant the creators and followers of this thing are.” Sometimes I have felt that too in discussions, but we have to remember that the Bab wrote that the person who wrote the book to people in Iran at that time to “the ignorant” as part of its title was in fact not wise at all. Of course anger and frustration often color our feelings and word choices, but in essence Bahais are usually people of loving kindness even in disagreements which should be discussed with utmost respect and kindness in the words of Abdu’l-Baha. So lets agree to treat each other with dignity and love the essence of that spark of God, the soul, within each of us.
Now the crux of your statement is that there can be no third prophet at this time, and that we are in error. Also, you question the seventh angel statement. You mention that the Bible is symbolism with added truth which is partly valid, I think. Remember, however, that God sends a prophet” as soon as the human race is ready for him.” Also Bahaullah stated to the Babis after he declared his mission, that ” Whether too soon or too late,” He was who He said he was and it was up to us to respond or not. God doeth whatever He willeth. Even today it is seen that the Bab did not choose Bahaullah for his successor, but another. Bahaullah assumed the reigns of authority on his own as he became aware of his mission. It is obvious that the Bab knew this. And had not Bahaullah appeared, the Bábi cause, already in disarray, would have ended. God knew it was needed to send a second manifestation. Some would say that the Bab was somewhat violent in his attitude toward non believers. Whether true or not, or whether his words were under duress or in response to certain situations, Bahaullah immediately abrogated this law. Also, as you know from reading the Bahá’í writings, the Bab stated that the next prophet would come only after 1501 to 2000 years! Yet Bahaullah was already alive and beginning to teach and write, but not yet as a prophet, as the Bab was murdered so horribly by his enemies. Nineteen years went between the twin declarations, not 1501!
Mason Remey appointed Joel Marangella as a backup third guardian… Mason wrote, “in case I am prevented from appointing my successor, the President of this council will become the third guardian…” Read the rest of this entry »
Mrs Gloria Javed a high ranking official and a member of continental board of counsellor of Bahai Faith in India who reports directly to the Universal House of Justice in Israel in a recent interview about the teaching of Bahai Faith in India agrreed that Bahais are involved in conversion of Indian in a deceptive manner.She said that we have now become more straight foreward in making Indian people as Bahais because the Universal House of Justice has asked us to do that.
She said that after a certain time we ask from our seeker (Chidren and Jr. Youth) that would they like to become Bahais:
“you reach a point when you invite seeker to become a Bahai and that was something we have never done before because we have been in institute process and we have been focusing core activity and just inviting people to the core activity but not asking them that question (Conversion) and the first time in Jan we could not find the words use many different nonaligned by building the world order and would you like to be be like us we did different things and than other board member my colleague use the example of we are all drop and we all get together we can make a change in this world but after three cycles of growth we become more audacious and this last time we ask the seeker do you think Bahullah as the manifestation of god.”
“we announce to them that we would now like to talk to you about what is the force behind us working with your children over this long period and why we are working with them so that you can support us and you can help us and we immediately divide the parents into small groups and each of us sits with them with the album and directly teaches them faith and invite them to be bahais and they accept just like that and parents are receptive and consolidation are easier as we have already have their children with us every week.”
On the other hand we see that the member of Universal House of Justice , Mr. Payman Mohajer saying that……..
Now if someone were to ask us whether the purpose of our inviting them to join study circles is to make them Bahá’ís, we can confidently say ‘NO’ and tell them that the purpose of our core activities is to assist in the transformation and betterment of society.”
This is a clear Hypocrisy and cheating in the Name of Faith.The Indians should be aware of this CHEATING.It is not a hidden fact that many Indians who joined Bahai Faith thinking that it is a Faith are now questioning the Bahai authorities that WHY DO WE CHEAT THE PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF TEACHING.
FULL TEXT OF THE INTERVIEW
Interviewer: So Gloria you come from New Delhi we heard about lot of success is there using Annas presentation there so please tell about what had happen in new Delhi
Gloria: Actually we started using Anna presentation in Januray of 2007 and the main purpose of using flip chart is to go thorough sequence of itr in sir quotation of writing of Bahullah.
India very big problem of teaching is that people didn’t mentioned that Bahai Faith is religion in the begining and the bahullah is the manifestation of God just like Lord Krishna and Jeses christ and that he is the promised one of all and if you look at that of anna presentation all these things is writing of first page so than you are not hiding anything from the seeker being bold being assertive you have been audacious as the HOUSE OF JUSTICE ask to do than you are teaching them directly so when they accept the Bahai faith they are accepting as a religion and accepting Bahullah as the manifestation of the God and not as the organization that does good thing and lotus temple that accept all the religions being unity of all religion because I think Bahai faith in India is known as force that unites all religion but they don’t know about Bahullah and Bahai faith as religion. I think that made us very bold and we were very afraid to do it first time in January but I think that when you make your self do something that you have never done before and you do it for Baha’u’llah it works.
In we didn’t go into controversial topics in annas presentation and you explain them and you reach a point when you invite seeker to become a Bahai and that was something we have never done before because we have been in institute process and we have been focusing core activity and just inviting people to the core activity but not asking them that question (Conversion) and the first time in Jan we could not find the words use many different nonaligned by building the world order and would you like to be be like us we did different things and than other board member my colleague use the example of we are all drop and we all get together we can make a change in this world but after three cycles of growth we become more audacious and this last time we ask the seeker do you think Bahullah as the manifestation of god.
Interviewer:Directly as that and what stage of presentation did you ask them
Gloria: Well actually we realize that we cannot go through the whole album and seekers will get tired and loose their interest so went through various Indian concept of covenant and manifestation of God of Bahullah being most latest and unity of mankind. We stop at the quotation of Abdul Baha and thought of more coming from their side but if they are sitting and they have more time than we are also going to the life of Baha’u’llah because in India there are many Gurus people are following gurus and they think Bahullah is just another guru than we talk about how manifestation of god are different how they suffer from mankind and how yet they are so victorious and we compare it lives of many of gurus in India and how wealthy and prosperous living comfortable life and than compare him so that they don’t put him on same level various gurus so if we have time we go to victory of Bahullah
And the two quotes is use that we have produce over here yes we hold it in our hand that was also challenge first time i took it out from my bag I extremely conscious and than I relaise that they don’t know that this is first time i am holding in my hand and I am very uncomfortable and nervous they think I am always do it and this is what how we teach our faith and actually ask the seeker to read and it really effects them and we don’t realize that we if we explain to them they will more touched but they read the words they have their side so we went ahead just using annas presentation and direct teaching approach and inviting to bahais and its not that we all afraid do it but think that they will feel that we are pressurizing them and making them something they don’t want to do but it is not like that we have experience over and over that people are ready to accept Bahullah and we are the person who need to ask them and this was in suburban and central in Delhi In the beginning it was suburban there were receptive population reside they are not wealthy but they are not jobless they all have jobs the workers at different stages but in the last two cycle we have also started affluent of neighborhood of Delhi and we have smaller population there but then to we use annas presentation we have bank managers, executives, young professional working in call center and these the Indian that are educated in various field we guess we consider them materialistic and think that they won’t listen but they do they do mainly it was devotional in the home followed by annas presentation and actually divide them to smaller groups and talk to them.
Interviewer How you involve children parents to do the class and involve them and would you explain little about that
Gloria it is the neighborhood where we have junior youth classes, children classes we consider their parents to be community of interest so then every cycle we hold devotional in neighborhood at large scale and infact we print thousand invitation we give to youth and children of our classes to give parents, neighbors, relatives, and their friends and performed what they learned in their classes during their 3 months. Small sketch stories and confirmation based on what they learned and after junior youth performance we see the total change in their parents both the mothers and their fathers you can see the expressions on their faces and right after performances of junior youth we announce to them that we would now like to talk to you about what is the force behind us working with your children over this long period and why we are working with them so that you can support us and you can help us and we immediately divide the parents into small groups and each of us sits with them with the album and directly teaches them faith and invite them to be bahais and they accept just like that and parents are receptive and consolidation are easier as we have already have their children with us every week.
Interviewer What are you are doing in JB tell us something about that?
Gloria My understanding that Johannesburg we have good activities that inviting seekers to core activity. They have large number of seekers in their devotionals children and junior youth but they have not able to teach their parents directly so we just came here to teach them with annas presentation people think that we have to complete the whole book but we can just do 15 to 20 minutes and invite the person to be a bahai that’s what we basically did we approach the parents of junior youth the seekers who are coming to the devotional of bahai homes they have never been taught the faith directly so we went and taught them the faith so we did here the same thing that we did in new delhi but here was more tiring as we go home to home and sometime only person. Ok great we look forward to result.
I am Gamal Naseer an Egyptian, having 23 years of association with Baha’is, a Teacher for long time ,active as a core group member for few years. I attended many Baha’i programmes inside and outside Egypt. Having read Will and Testament many times, it was a question in my mind that why Shoghi Effendi has not left any Will appointing another Guardian, while Will and Testament says that “It is incumbent upon a Guardian to appoint another Guardian during his life time”. Shoghi did not nominate any successor after him because of which many divisions occurred in Baha’i faith.
I asked few of senior Baha’is like Bassa Mousa but could not get any satisfactory answer. I started my own investigation, as Baha’i faith which takes pride in Principle of “Independent Investigation of Truth”, started reading history which made for me more and more questions. I asked to one of counselor (who happened to be in Egypt as teacher for the core group) that who was Badiullah and titled as Ghusn Noor, to my surprise he turned speechless and started asking me, From where you got such questions? It looks somebody is poisoning your mind. As a good Baha’i you should not ask anything about the family of Bahaullah. I said very politely to him that I read history of Baha’i Faith and found out about him.
He said as a Baha’i you should learn about what the Universal House of Justice requires of you, and what the required objectives and goals of the current five year plan. You should learn about the various institutions and their role in society and in the Baha’i world, and your role in obeying them, and to devote your time for teaching the Baha’i Faith.
He said that you should know that “The expansion and consolidation are twin processes that complete one another, and this understanding will definitely help you conducting children’s classes, junior youth circles, devotionals meetings. The UHJ does not want you to know why Abdul Baha said in the Will and Testament “That Guardianship and Universal House of Justice are twin Institution.”
You should know the sacrifices of Persian Baha’is in Iran and always be humble in front of them. Remember that Baha’i Faith originated from their Country. Baha’i Faith is the Gift of Iran to the world. Today you see in the UHJ in the ITC and CBC a majority of the Baha’is are Persians
He said that asking such questions will force UHJ of depriving you of your voting Rights or declare you a Covenant Breaker.
Suddenly I realized my meeting with Mr. Hasan Sabri after his second marriage to Ms Isabel in UK. He was absolutely against the Persian Baha’is and their behavior:
They told me that the Persian Baha’is while talking amongst them calls other Baha’is as KHAR (Means donkey in Persian). Mr. Sabri went on to say these Persians are very very clever.
They always have a secret meeting amongst themselves they discuss about the agenda and then try to implement the same .Other members have just to approve it.
He was very critical about the Persian UHJ members like Mr. Fatheazam and Ali Nakhjawani whom he believed dominated the UHJ proceedings and is in private contact with the Secretary of NSA of every country.
Mr. Sabri had been hurt quite strongly during his tenure as the HEAD of Socio-Economic Development Project of the UHJ. He said the UHJ use to instruct me one thing and when I wanted to implement it the NSA members of that country use to say that Mr. Fataheazam or Nakhjawani has instructed us to do certain other things on Telephonic Message.
Mrs. Sabri narrated an incident where a few Baha’is from UK came to India for training and when they went back. They were different because of the Persians running the Academy in India.
In August 2010, I attended the 10 day ISGP in Hurghada. I realized that these programmes have a very specific aims planned by UHJ and implemented by the Core group members of that Country
In these programmes both the sexes are allowed to mix freely in the name of equality of sexes. The participants are instructed, How to go about spreading of the Baha’i Faith in those countries where the Baha’i Faith is Banned like Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, Yemen Bahrain etc..
I took some of my close friends in confidence and discussed with them these issues and showed them proof from history, two of them said they are aware of these facts, but as they said they are Baha’i now and are denounced by family and relatives in process, and have no where to turn back, so they let go this and moved ahead. But for me it was not a satisfactory answer.
By chance I meet another traveler teacher who was Egyptian by birth but change his nationality to one of middle east country, I asked him same things, he was learned scholar and said it is good work keep it up, He said another Baha’i Scholar in the name of Ahan Rabbani went from UK to House for doing Research .There he discovered some manuscript where he got confused. He started asking questions related to them and as a result the UHJ asked him to leave immediately.
The Counselor guided me to some more academic websites, from where I got many histories rare and unpublished books few of which I would like to put on my blogs, the readers can them self decide. At least I will feel no responsibility on my soul by hiding the truth, rest they them self can do “Independent Investigation of Truth”.
Read more: http://bahaileaders9.blogspot.com
I made friends with a number of Bahais awhile back. After some investigation of the faith, I concluded that is was logically inconsistent and falsely advertised. This is NOT a universal faith, and contradicts science and reason, despite the insistence that it is a faith for modern times. Also, Bahais are quick to be your friend upon learning of your interest in the faith, but will quickly withdraw that friendship should you decide it’s not for you. This is not love.
Also, very few people have ever heard of the faith. Seriously, it’ been around for a century at least….. There are more people on this planet who have heard of those who believe in the “flying spaghetti monster” than they have of the Bahais. With all the communication available to the masses, surely if this was part of God’s Divine Plan, there would be more converts, right?
There is no place in the modern world for a faith that:
-will not allow women in the highest echelons of power
-lies about membership numbers
-divides the world into “believers” and “non believers” aka “friends” and “enemies”
-behaves like the Catholic Church when confronted with child sex abuse claims
-wastes money on shrine upkeep/building, when thousands are starving
-stunts the intellectual development of people who would otherwise be reasonable
Also, another point: The only people I see joining the faith are those who don’t have the social savvy to belong to any other groups other than religious (where they are forced to accept you). So a lot of your time may be spent having to “love” boring, marginalized people….
Baha’i leaders employ a number of important control mechanisms to shape the speech and behavior of Baha’is. These include removal of voting rights, shunning, demands for conformity, accusations of “weakness in the covenant,” informing and surveillance, and various forms of censorship. Many of these tools are employed primarily against persons who are somehow prominent or appear to have leadership potential but do not seem easy for incumbents to control, or against intellectuals and some businessmen engaged in Baha’i-related businesses.
The prohibition of nominations and campaigning leads administrators to feel a need for strict controls on Baha’i discourse, and often to the avoidance of even mentioning leaders by name in public, which would be construed as “backbiting.” The ban on campaigning can become a ban on visibility or on any sort of critical thinking. A group of Californian believers began a Baha’i magazine, Dialogue, in the mid-1980s. Although all the articles were submitted for prepublication censorship to the National Spiritual Assembly, a feeling of distrust toward the magazine’s left-liberal editorial line grew up in Wilmette and in Haifa. In spring of 1988 the editors proposed the publication of a 9-point reform program, “A Modest Proposal,” which they submitted for censorship (Dialogue Ed. Board 1987). The article pointed to the decline in conversions, argued against continued censorship, and proposed term limits for N.S.A. members. They offered to (but did not) make the document available beforehand to delegates to the national convention. The response of N.S.A. secretary Robert Henderson and Firuz Kazemzadeh was to accuse the editors of engaging in “negative campaigning.” The editors were denounced at the 1988 national convention in Wilmette, and were interrogated by N.S.A. members, who privately expressed concerns that the publication of such a document might have prevented incumbents from being reelected, and who raised suspicions that an independent magazine such as Dialogue might prove a vehicle for gaining popularity in the community for the editors such that they might get elected to the N.S.A. The editors, dismayed at this barrage of what they felt were false charges and violations of due process, and worried that Dialogue could not survive such official condemnation, closed the magazine (Scholl 1997). The ban on campaigning leads to a situation where a great deal of suspicion falls on any active intellectual or any medium of communication not directly controlled by the N.S.A.
Baha’i administrators put a high premium on enforcing relative conformity of views within the religion, taking steps to prevent the emergence of self-conscious subcultures, which are seen as “parties” and as divisive. Despite the clear ideological divide in the community between liberals and conservatives apparent on email forums, Baha’is are forbidden to label one another in this way, which effectively prevents liberals from complaining about the conservative ascendancy. Although the early Baha’i faith had a place in it for cohesive sub-groups of mystics and scholars, the contemporary American community places a premium on homogeneity. Legitimate leadership is held to be collective, though cults of personality do grow up around Baha’i officials. Great suspicion attaches to any Baha’i teacher or lecturer who is not an elected or appointed official and is thought to be “gaining a following.” The story of one such popular Baha’i lecturer in the 1980s, an immigrant from Iran whose name I have disguised, is told by a friend:
Under the auspices of the California Regional Teaching Committee he began to do classes . . . on personal reading of the [sacred] Text. These were very widely attended . . . One day after about 4 or 5 months a representative of the CA RTC said that the N.S.A. was very concerned about the extreme adulation being shown to [Ibrahim], some of which was expressed in letters to the National Center. Tragically, this person said that the friends could think what they wanted to, but to please just change what they wrote to the N.S.A.. This was subterfuge, and this, combined with [Ibrahim’s] silence on the matter instead of public renunciation of the adulation, was the death knell. The classes were closed down. The rumor was that it was because he was developing a following (personal communication, 16 April 1997).
While a Baptist preacher would have been rewarded for such activities with his own congregation, the collectivist ethos of the American Baha’i community demanded that this popular preacher actually be silenced for his success.
Among important control mechanisms at the disposal of Baha’i leaders is the removal of a believer’s “administrative rights.” By virtue of joining the Baha’i faith, all adult believers have the right to vote directly for members of their local spiritual assembly, and to vote at District Convention for their delegate to the annual National Convention, who in turn elects the members of the National Spiritual Assembly each year. Elections of local and national assemblies are conducted according to the “Australian” system, such that the nine persons garnering the most votes win. Every five years, members of the world’s National Spiritual Assemblies elect the members of the Universal House of Justice.
Here is ‘Abdu’l-Baha (Exemplar and Interpreter of the Baha’i Faith) speaking about Blacks:
“The black man must ever be grateful to the white man, for he has manifested great courage and self-sacrifice for the black race.”
“If man is left in his natural state, he will become lower than the animal and continue to grow more ignorant and imperfect. The savage African tribes of central Africa are evidences of this.”
Promulgation of Universal Peace, p.308
“If we study human beings such as the aboriginal tribes of central Africa, who have been reared in complete subjection to nature’s rule, we will find them deficient indeed. They are without religious education; neither do they give evidences of any advance toward civilization. They have simply grown and developed in the natural plane of barbarism. We find them bloodthirsty, immoral and cannibalistic in type to such an extent that they even kill and devour each other.”
Promulgation of Universal Peace, p.399
“The inhabitants of a country like Africa are all as wandering savages and wild animals; they lack intelligence and knowledge; all are uncivilized; not one civilized and wise man is to be found among them. On the contrary, consider the civilized countries, the inhabitants of which are living in the highest state of culture and ethics, solidarity and inter-dependence; possessing, with few exceptions, acute power of comprehensions and sound mind.”
Tablets of ‘Abdu’l-Baha, p.576
The Founders of the Baha’i Faith are The Bab and Baha’u’llah. Both of Them owned black slaves; although Baha’u’llah forbade the practice of slavery among His folowers in 1874.
The Bab bought and sold black people who were forced to serve; whether they wanted to or not. They called their Masters by the Persian term for “Master”.
They couldn’t do anything without their master’s permission. They were “slaves”; in any language you choose to use. It is not I am trying to rewrite history! Rather, the NSA of the U.S. tried to get the book that reveals this (*Black Pearls* by Afnan–a descendants of The Bab) “quieted” and “covered-up”. Thankfully, Anthony Lee (the black publisher of Kalimat Press) didn’t listen to them
The argument that ‘Abdu’l-Baha could NOT have considered Africans inferior in intelligence “because” He dedicated His life to Race Unity doesn’t follow. He considered mankind a Family. Even in families, some children are more intelligent than others. I’m not saying I think blacks are (in general) less intelligent. I’m saying that ‘Abdu’l-Baha may have thought so. Isfandiyar was not the only slave/servant of Baha’u’llah–there were _many_ more.